Policing the legislature

Jurmi Chhowing asked me to post his article “What exactly is The RBP’s Status?” on this blog. It appears that Bhutan Observer inadvertently ran an unedited version of the story. And, more importantly, that they wrongly credidted the article to Thuji Nadik.

If you wish to feature your story as a “guest”, please send them to me by email. Do not post your stories as comments.

 

Facebook Comments:

Comments

  1. Dear OL,
    If it wasn’t Thuji Nadik who authored the article, who did? Jurmi Chhowing?

  2. Perhaps Jurmi Chowing really need to understand how a state works and how the concept of state has evolved. It only appears to me that he has not done his formal education attending lectures regularly. On the contrary he has picked up his english from hollywood movies and is attemtping to portray as a sophisticated person. His freedom of speech as expressed through the print media has been a series of complain so far. Come on, grow up man! You can’t still be an adoloscent and seek attention.

    • Deki,
      How is someone’s formal education related to a system of this kind?
      As far as a third party observation is concerned, I think few good points have been raised in the article.

      I dont even know who he is, but I have a bachelors degree and undergoing masters too. Will you take my words to be better than his? just because I am formally educated!
      I would say, let down your attitude about being educated, so called formal education! and try to acknowledge the issues raised!
      cheers.

      • It Is, As You Put It, Not About Us Actually…I Do Not Give A Rat’s Butt Who’s Got What “Accomplishments” And The Whole “Rank And File” Lot.

        It Is About The RBP Status. We Have To Deal/Live With Them On A Daily Fare. Hence The Article Requesting Clarity And Status.

        Having Said Said That, JollyGoodLuck With Your Master’s Program! Cheers! Jurmi Talisman Chhowing, K4 Media, Thimphu.

    • Okay Deki; You got personal. This is my retort:

      looks Like You Have That “Inner-Info” On How a “State-Works” and how the “Concept of State Has Evolved!”

      Kudos for That Lovely Bureaucratic Lingo That Says Everything and Means Nothing on a Pragmatic Note!

      Besides Hollywood, I’d Credit Bollywood, Tollywood, Nollywood, the Bhutanese Film Industry “Pinewood” and Every Person I’ve ever come across;

      From a Beggars-Coolies-Goondas-Hippie-Dharma Bums-Teachers-Cops-Bureaucrats-Autocrats-Aristocrats-And Everything else I’ve Ever Come Across For Enriching My Personal Life.

      And I’m Sill Wondering: “Just What Is a Sophisticated Person?!!?” If there is such an entity!

      Ps: If all you’ve Read Are “My Complains” Then You Must Have Your Own Interpretations Contrary to mine!

      And Please Keep That “Self-Righteous-Tone-of-Condescending-Adultness” to Yourself.
      You Can Shub My Apparent “Want” of “Attention” Up Your Self-Righteous Hole!

      Cheers Mate! “I Mean What I Say And I Say What I Mean And Even When I Lie I Tell The Truth”:

      **That’s The Alfred “Al” Pacino Character Antonio Montana From The 80s Cult-Classic “Scarface” But What The Hell Would You Know?

      “All I’ve In This World Are My Words And My Balls And I Don’t Break Them For Nobody!”

      Now How Do You Feel? If This RBP Status Was Crystal-Clear What Want Was There For An Article? Remember, Its Being Raised For People Who Might Not Necessarily Have Your “Inner-Info” And “State-Evolutions” And “Formal Education.”

  3. You are not the only dumbo here. I am one too as I could not understand your article posted here. You as a writer should do a better job in writing better in a simplified manner so that Dumbo’s like us can make sense out of your writing.

    • Now That’s Fair Enough Ugen; I’ll Keep That In Mind.
      But I must say the article actually tries to reflect the very nature of the issue raised- one of confusion! Cheers!

  4. Wang Dungyel says:

    I really appreciated Mr. Jurmi’s view on RBP’s status. It is well analysed and written. There is lot of thinking required specially regarding overall administrative power of the RBP. I have also watched the proceeding of the NA on this issue and it is quite sad the whole lot of politicians are against the statutory power of the RBP. The way that they debated in front of the Chief of Police and his subordinate actually destroyed the good moral of the police force. In the public view it portrays that the politician are actually frighten of the RBP’s statutory power which they feel will be applied spontaneously to fixed them in case of them going against the rules. Common man wants such power with the police and to clean the democracy. The ruling party holding the administrative control of the police doesn’t sound good nor was it put in our kingdom’s constitution. Such law keeper should be left autonomous and under the defence force as earlier which we found very very very effective. So all politician please have a good thought to the issue in the interest of the country and revisit the issue. I apology if it is harsh..

  5. A Rather UnRelated Topic!
    Honorable OL And President, PDP,
    Sir, Could You Please Have This Blog-Site On Your Blogroll?The Reasons Are Obvious!

    Your Site Generates A Lot Of Visits/Peeps/Glances/Interactions And I Think This Blog, Maintained By Liz Warren; An American Teacher In Thimphu.

    She Teaches At The Early Learning Center And Writes About Education And The Youth. The Blog

    Is(http://teachinginbhutan.blogspot.com/)

    Thanking You! Cheers!

  6. What is your take on this la, OL? I remember someone suggesting in the last session that there be a body that monitors police action, or takes up complaints against the police in the MOHCA, but let the Police be a separate entity, and that seemed like a good idea to me. Because I have come across police activities that are shocking. But again, if the police got some more support, it would be that much more effective for sure.

  7. I must make an apology for provoking Mr. Jurmi. On the contrary, I support your views and always felt happy that at least in a rigid-system of buraucracy where one almost felt gagged, there is at least one man standing. I admire your outright scripts that spews on the policy makers which is unprecedented. In-fact you are the true check and balance of the political system rather than the opposition party because the opposition party is also political and has ulterior motive. I for one does not belong to any party and I have not exercised my franchise, How infuriating can that be. I am utterly sorry that my slight provocation instead of testing your “Mindfulness” which perhaps you (I assumed) must have experienced being a dharma bum riding on with Robert M Prisig “The art of motor cycle maintenance” sent you into a fury that you ghastly shoved it right through my rectum. I am your cause of your anger in short. But my assumed expectation was different considering that you have read(saw you allude to in an article)”The Motorcycle of maintenance.” Normally those who have read these books are also introduced to Gary Zukav’s “The Dancing Wu Li Masters” and Fritjof Capra’s “The Tao of Physics.” Perhaps the retort in the style of Al pacino or Robert Diniro or dylan sentiment was quite unexpected. I for one am quite sceptical about qualifications and it is becoming quite cheesy-this qualification factor. Come to think of scholarships. Bhutan an under-developed country recieves many scholarships. Some of them got entry into Harvard and Oxford. I can’t help being a cynic here. Harvard and Oxford has a tradition. A tradition that takes in students who have excelled. But a bhutanese who goes to Oxford or Harvard comes out quite differently-with bloated ego. But who goes to Ox and Har. Ask OL if bhutanese who went to the two prestigious Universities were smart. By the way I am only a high school drop-out and my idea of enlightenment emanated not from 4 noble truths but from the first orgasm that I experienced. I am really sorry Chhowing I don’t have the right to provoke you; and you must keep on giving out your piece of mind for the betterment of the bhutanese culture. Two kind of people I support in the present scenario of our nation building would be aum Neten and Your like-otherwise corruption was close to being an epidemic. Aum Neten by portfolio and you as the voice of the GNH as long as your voice is unadulterated. And there is no need to doubt that I belong to the inner circle.
    My sincere aplogy once again to Mr. Jurmi.

    • Provoked-Reacted-Olives Accepted.
      Yes I Used To Be a Dharma-Bum Now I’m Just a Bum.
      Personally I Think There’s No difference Between Any Of The Authors/Actors You Cited Above In Terms Of Creativity/Expression. But Like With Everything Else, We Take What Fits Us.

      And If Those Years Of Being a Wandering Dharma Bum Has Taught Me Anything It Is That You Can Be Compassionate And Wrathful At The Same Time.

      All The Best. Cheers!

  8. Pro Taleman says:

    I know Jurmi as a person and I have no views on his being different from others. It is his life, he will live the way he loves best as long as he is not a public danger.

    But the issues he raised here beg some serious consideration. It is a very important topic that requires some serious thinking. We Bhutanese need to learn to differentiate message from the messenger.

    Police will, in way or the other, affect our daily lives. If the institutional set up is going to make them corrupt and inefficient, we need to respond. The parliament is made up of our representative who should listen and not lord over us.

    Putting it under the MoHCA will of course result in the police getting politicised and corrupted. Such an eventuality should not be because of some power hungry politicians.

    We must raise our voice.

  9. Dear the postman,

    You say you are Jurmi Talisman Chhowing, K4 Media, Thimphu.

    Now I am intrigued – please clarify to me this – if you know:

    The BO credits the authorship of that article on the RBP to Thuji Nadik of the TCB – which is a government body. You are a private person.

    How did it happen that the two names got mixed up? Isn’t it rather too far fetched? Where is the connection? How did your name get replaced with that of Thuji Nadik?

    I can understand if your name “Jurmi” got mixed up with “Minjur” – and the “Chhowing” part to “Chador” or something like that. But – Jurmi Chhowing to Thuji Nadik? Too darn frigging farfetched!!!! There has got to be a sane explanation to this.

  10. the postman,

    Are you calling me a monkey? what brought that on? Are you high on some substance? Was my question offensive in some way? I am genuinely puzzled how two so unrelated names can get mixed up. Is that unacceptable?

  11. Hmmm the postman you freak – that was uncalled for.

    Anyway, obviously Deki was right in her first post – only partially though. She failed to recognize the scum lurking within that exterior trash.

    Anyway since it is obvious that you are incapable of a decent discussion, we end it here.

    Like you suggested, I will go get a life – while you have none to talk about. Bye

  12. hmm – what a lot of conversation but hardly anything on the posted article!
    Yes Guest, it is interesting to see Postman’s reaction. He asks for his article to be posted, is put out when it is incorrectly assigned to another author, responds totally out of proportion when people actually comment on his musings.
    I think you have hit the nail on the head- he is not interested in any feedback or alternative thoughts or ideas. He just wants people to feed his ego/ agree with him despite all his rantings to the contrary.
    There is no point actually considering on the problem he raises. He is self-righteous to extremes.. let all us sad bast*Ds go get a life and leave him to swill in his. As pointed out – it’s his to do what he wishes with

  13. In any case – to my limited knowledge on the actual subject.
    Taking examples from otehr countries (even if we chose not to follow their example) army, navy, airforce and sometimes police are under ministry of defence, or police is under ministry of home. In both cases these ministries are civil service and soldiers, sailors, police are civil servants.
    Their ranks remain as ranks as chosen by that country and do not have to reflect other civil sevrice institutions.
    They are subject to civil service regulations as well as any specific rules and regs, codes of conduct as laid out for their particular ‘service’ – i.e. the armed forces or police.
    In the more stable (what we aspire to?) they have a degree of autonomy (i.e. armed forces separate from mainstream govt) to avoid misues/ abuse by those in power for their own gains (bad examples – pakistan, zimbabwe).
    There is often an oversight organisation – either internal or external. Police is oftern external (independant) as it deals with the public more commonly than armed forces (which also has security considerations about info released during enquiries etc)
    But we may find that our armed forces have much more day to day interface with the public than these countries and need to take a different view.

    • KT2020,

      That Guest Was More Interested In Authorship (and i even volunteered by mobile number for whatever clarifications regarding authorship!).
      In My opinion, That is Irrelevant to the Issue Raised; which you Aptly Commented Upon in your Second Posting.

      Me and My Ego is also Irrelevant. Its About Clarity as to Where And What is the present Status of the RBP.

      Cheers Nonetheless!

  14. This is looking more like a bar fight scene here then some discussion. Jurmi try and cap your ego, most of the posts here are more about u and ur rants then the topic.
    A couple of posts on u are personal but by reacting in such a way u are opening urself to more criticism and the shift has gone away from ur post to u. not a good idea when others are anonymous but u are in full character.

  15. Anyhow let me try and make some sense.

    1. First please read the constitution which is very clear when it says that the police comes under the home ministry for law and order. It also says that it shall be considered an important part of the nations security force but that is the case in any country where police nab terrorists and maintain internal law and order even during wars.

    2. Keeping the police under the armed forces is a bad idea especially with the number of human rights violations these guys have been committing recently.
    If we go by the RBP interpretation then they neither seem to be accountable to His Majesty or the elected govt. It’s simply a case of trying to enjoy the best of both worlds by interpreting the constitution to their own choice.

    3. Keeing the RBP under the armed forces is also a bad idea beacause their focus will be more oriented towads external security through a chain of command which is not their job and thus ignore the internal rowdies and criminals.

    4. The major challnge and irritant apart from increasing crime is the behaviour of policemen in interacting with common people. what is needed is sensitization not additiona military style dealings.

    5. On corruption incase people didnt know ACC is already investigating RBP on a construction issue. The RBA itself also has multiple audit issues going back to major pem tshering so there is no real gaurantee of a corruption free RBP left to themselves.

    6. The elected government still does not have full say over RBP affairs and RBP has been given ‘administrative independence’ so there is a chec and balance.

    7. Finally bhutan would have been the only democratic country in the world where the RBP is not under the elected govt if RBP had it’s way. How can a government improve law and order, meet and coordinate disaster managment needs (infact the 6 boys washed away was due to poor coordination) and be pressured to keep us safe withouth the police being under them

    8. Look at it this way we an pressure the govt who can pressure the police.

  16. I agree with Think. My thoughts:

    1. Administrative Control
    The Police must not be totally independent of the government – not as yet. They cannot be compared with the armed forces for the simple reason that they perform two distinctly different functions. Their training is also totally different from that of the RBA. I also disagree that that Police should function within the administrative control of the RBA. That would be a disaster. The army’s mentality and their outlook are molded quite differently – to suite a predetermined purpose – they are trained in a different way altogether. The influence of the army’s way of thinking and conduct in the police rank and file would cause total chaos – we will end up having a Police state.

    Our current breed of Police force is a product of the old order – the order that has grown out of the Royal Courts. The fact that Constitutional Monarchy has been introduced in the country is recognition enough that the old order has become antiquated in the modern times. The recent cases of Police brutality and the inhuman treatment they are capable of is enough indication that the Police still needs to be indoctrinated into more human ways of going about their business. That indoctrination must happen under controlled conditions and that condition or environment can be provided by a civilian government with a democratic bend of mind. In due course when we are certain that the Police force will behave less like a GI Joe and more like a facilitator of law and order, we can then think of giving them total independence. That is, if such independence is necessitated by a civilian government failing to govern them constructively.

    Just recall what the present Police Chief had to say in support of the Police Officer who forced an inmate to drink his own pee. That will tell you the mentality of the present breed of Police officers.

    Please don’t tell me that it is an isolated case – it is not. It is the subconscious manifestation of their true nature. I am not saying that the RBP are bad. It is just that I think they still have, what I would call, for want of a proper word, a “Para-military” mentality. We need to help them shed that mentality first, before we can trust them to function independently – without some bit of control.

    2. Status
    The Police are not an armed force. They are not even a Para-military force. Just because they wear a uniform does not make them an armed force. Even the gatekeeper wears a uniform.

    Their rightful status is that of an Internal Security Agency. Just because their officers are designated (an anomaly) as Captains and Majors and Colonels does not turn them into the armed force. In fact, I have it on good authority that the RBP has recognized that there has been a mistake in designating them as if they were the armed forces. They agree that no where else in the world the police have military designations. I am told that they are now trying to change that by adopting more conventional police designations such as those prevailing around the world.

    Now, by interpretation, if an agency is not military or Para-military, then they are civilian. Period! Thus, since the Police are neither military, nor Para-military, then they must be accorded the “civilian” status. However, it is not a valid argument that just because they are under the MoHCA it would automatically mean that they should fall under the purview of the BCSR and thus, by default, under the RCSC. The Constitutional bodies are civilians – but they are not under the RCSC. They should not be.

    3. Pay and Allowance and Benefits
    The RBP can have their own Service Rules and pay structure which does not have to necessarily follow the BCSR module. The justification is that the nature of their work is pretty special as opposed to those of other civilian functionaries. Their working hours are more rigorous and they are more prone to personal risks. They should be paid higher than those in the civil service.

    4. Police Promotion Board
    Concerning the Police Promotion Board, I think one should not confuse it with the Board of Directors of a registered public limited company. I think Police Promotion Board is required to be formed to ensure that there is no civilian influence or interference in matters relating to the promotion of the police force. I think that should be how it should be.

    I don’t see any confusion in what has been proposed regarding our police force.

    • Dear Guest

      v quick thought on two of your points

      ‘armed force’ only means an agency that may be armed to address law and order enforcement. so hopefully not armed 100% of the time. It is not to do with wearing uniform as in many cases, undercover officers (for drugs intelligence gathering etc) are required.

      rank names – it is not completely correct that police do not share some rank names with other military forces. In UK they share sargent and also lietenant I think. But yes, clearly the heirachy is not same and should not be so police do not beleive they have same powers. Though a senior officer by any ‘rank name’ will have prestige.

  17. Guest! Your explication is very succinct. Kudos to you.

  18. Thanks Everyone! Now We Have More Awareness!

Leave a Reply